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Now that I have probably angered a bunch of Snape fans, let me explain.

I love Snape and his death broke my heart, and of course I wanted him to live! I wanted him to live because I felt he deserved better than dying the way he did, never having a chance to really make his own life, as he was always bound to his dead love, his guilt, mistakes, and his masters.

However when I really think about it in a canon sense, and more detached from my Snape-love, it really makes perfect sense to me that he died and it seems right that he did.

If Snape had survived the war, what sort of life would he have had after? Fanfictions deal with this a lot, and in many varying ways. I love to read about "Snape survived" fanfictions because the possibilities are interesting and endless. Does Snape get away from it all in a quiet cottage in the Orkneys? Does he stay at Hogwarts and take up his old post as Potions Master? Does he spend the rest of his life with effects from Nagini's bite? Does he finally move on, and by some strange fluke, a relationship begins to build with someone? Does he fall in love again, and finally get closure to his past with Lily? Does he have children, and become a wonderful father? Does he start a mail order potions service? Does he serve time in Azkaban? Is he pardoned for the Mark on his arm, and lauded a hero?

The list is really endless of 'what ifs'. But when canon comes into play, I really don't think any of those good things would have happened, or could have happened.

I do like reading other Snape pairings, but the TRUTH is that Snape loved Lily, and he would ALWAYS love Lily. I don't think he would ever stop, and I think allowing himself to even have a hint of romantic feelings to someone else would have felt like a betrayal to her. Snape does not half-ass things, he does them head on, fervently, with obsession. Snape's torch for Lily is one big ass torch and I don't think he would allow anything to put the smallest damper on it.

If Snape had survived, what would he have really done after the war? He spent his life first serving Voldemort, Dumbledore, and his lost love. He was always driven and chained by his love, passion, and guilt. Snape and Lily is not a pretty love story at all, and Snape is a very tragic figure. We like to emphasize how hard Snape loved, how fully he loved, but it really is a sad and miserable sort of love. As a result of his actions he had driven most likely the one person who had ever cared for him away. If that wasn't enough that he ruined a relationship that meant so much to him, his actions later result in her death. In my mind Snape doesn't ever think to himself 'Voldemort killed Lily' I feel like he would always think 'I KILLED LILY'. Like I said, Snape does something, he does not half ass it. I think this would include self-blame. When he was with Dumbledore after her death, he was practically suicidal.

After the war Snape would no longer be indebted to a master, and he would have served his purpose to protect Harry. What would there be left for Snape to do? He had basically spent his entire life since the age of nine (minus the part in between where he lost his head, called her a Mudblood, and got a ridiculous tattoo) being a willing slave to his love for Lily. When it was all done, what was really left? What purpose would Snape's life now have? He never seemed to like teaching much, so I doubt he would have found much in returning to teach, unless it was just routine and familiarity...which are both good things.

I think his life would be strange to him having nothing to really be dedicated to any longer. I don't really think he would have felt closure, as even if Lily forgave him, I really don't think Snape would ever find it in himself to forgive himself. He is a man who holds grudges, and don't think he makes an exception for himself. His life would be lonely, because he would not find someone else to share it with. I think he would just continue to be miserable, lonely, and dissatisfied with his life, and that really saddens me.

Snape's death was good for him. His life was the ultimate price he could have given for his love, and I think he had no problem dying for Lily. I think if needed, he would have died for her over, and over, and over again. I don't think anything else would have ever been enough, in his mind. No amount of service, dedication, protection, spying, risk-taking, years, decades, just none of it would have ever been enough in his mind, I think.

I think Snape also finds a kind of peace and closure in his death: and ability to maybe finally move on.

Why do I say this? Here's why.

Throughout all the books Snape loathes Harry. Over and over again it is because Harry is like his father. Always, Harry is like James. I think Snape asking Harry to look at him in the end, is not just a sadly romantic sort of thing that JKR stuck in there. I think it is a very deep symbol. When has Snape ever looked past the James in Harry? As Snape has surrendered his most private memories to Harry, as Snape is dying, he is finally able to look past his grudges, his anger, his bitterness, his pain, and to see the good in Harry...to see how like his mother he is. I think this moment is so powerful for both Snape and Harry, because in that gaze they both come to terms with who the other really is.

I think Snape has finally found a peace, and that maybe he is ready to go, knowing he has done all he can and there will be no more crucifying himself for his mistakes.

It is done.

-x-
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Why Severus' Death is Not Deliverance

If Severus survived Nagini's bite I still feel there would have been a moment when he believed he was dying. I feel the "Look at me" moment would still exist. Harry would still have Severus' memories to look through, and Harry would share those memories, not just through verbal retelling, but by showing the memories to others.

I imagined, that in the moment that Harry sees Severus bitten he rushed in after to save him. I feel he would send a Patronus to somebody, Kingsley asking for help. The only reason J.K. R didn't construct the moment that way was, as you said, for symbolic effect and to create a cyclical purpose for Severus' actions.

:bulletred: If Snape had survived the war, what sort of life would he have had after?

I believe, that with his knowledge of the Dark Arts, fundamental spell theory, spells, and Potions that he could either:

1) Return and teach Advanced Potions

2) Become an Unspeakable in the Department of Mysteries, as he has invented his own spells.

3) Return and teach The Theory of Dark Magic, Defense Against the Dark Arts, and another class about The History of Dark Magic to give students and adult wizards a better understanding of the evolution of Dark Magic and its uses.

:bulletorange: The list is really endless of 'what ifs'. But when canon comes into play, I really don't think any of those good things would have happened, or could have happened.

In Canon, if Severus had survived, I believe he would have been allowed to get his strength back before being tried for his actions. However, as evidence of his role as a Double Agent, Severus' memories would be extracted and carefully dissected. The truth of his decisions would be weighed, and under Kingsley's Ministry Severus would be given a punishment, House Arrest or Term in Azkaban (non-Demontor guarded) equal the the severity of his individual actions.

So, in a way his life would not be happy. I believe, due to his self-blame and self-loathing, in terms of blaming himself for Lily's death, he would insist upon serving time. However, his memories being taken into account, and Harry having seen them (as I think in Canon, had Severus survived, there would still be a moment he thought he was dying), he would be viewed in a positive light for taking responsibility for his actions.

After his prison term Severus would choose a life out of the lime light. But, I don't believe that Harry would leave him alone, having witnessed his memories. Severus, although he would act surly and aloof, would find a secret part of himself enjoying being around Harry and his family, although there would be that "much suffered" attitude toward it. Because he was a double agent I believe he would be viewed as having repented and gain status as a war hero.

:bulletyellow: I don't think he would ever stop, and I think allowing himself to even have a hint of romantic feelings to someone else would have felt like a betrayal to her.

Severus would never stop loving Lily. He would also never stop blaming himself for her death. However, in Canon, if he survived I believe he would at least allow friends into his life. I don't think he would be capable to trusting a woman with his heart, as the only woman he loved ex-communicated him from her life.

I do think, that despite this self-blame, Severus could let another person become a close friend and confidant, someone to lift his spirits and understand him. But, I agree he would not fall in love.

:bulletgreen: If Snape had survived, what would he have really done after the war?

I believe, added to the prison term, that he would return to Spinner's End, not for sentimental reasons, but because he owned it. He would live his life out of the lime light and in relative seclusion, although Minerva and a few other people may refuse to let him be alone. As I've already said that his memories would still be knowledge people would have due to the trial.

:bulletblue: What would there be left for Snape to do?

Severus vowed to protect Harry. No matter what misplaced grudge or misplaced anger he may have demonstrated. Voldemort is gone. But Pure-Bloodists aren't, and certainly not every Death Eater or Death Eater in training would have been caught after the final battle. There would still be raids to go on and Harry would face dangers.

Since Severus doesn't "half ass" anything he would still protect Harry. And even Harry's children, as Lily's grandchildren. I can see him having a (much denied) soft spot for Lily Luna. Severus wouldn't be forgiven right away, it takes Harry 19 years to come to terms with who Severus is, in Canon after he dies. But, there would be a mutual respect between the two.

:bulletpurple: When it was all done, what was really left? What purpose would Snape's life now have?

Just because Voldemort is gone doesn't mean that Severus never had goals for himself. He'l have to spend every moment of his remaining life repairing the view people have of him. He'll have to work twice as hard to gain trust and be known as a reliable person. But, I believe that he could be an Auror or as I've said an UnSpeakable, or return to teaching as he is a "creature of habit."

:bulletpink: I think he would just continue to be miserable, lonely, and dissatisfied with his life, and that really saddens me.

Severus, who does all things will a fervent, obsessive approach, does not Trust easily. He trusted Lily, who ultimately pushed him away. He loved Lily. He lost Lily.

All these life-changing moments happen between the ages of 9 and Early-20s. That shows how easily a young person's mind can be molded or influenced by life-threatening and life-changing moments. Lily was a life-changing moment. Being stuck in Slytherin, due to him ambition, was life-threatening (as a Half-blood he faced physical, emotional and mental harm). It just so happened that life-threatening overruled life-changing.

I don't think that other people: Harry, Minerva, Hermione would allow him to be miserable, having found out about his memories and the situations that he went through as a young person. He obviously did not personally buy into Pure-Bloodism. He felt guilty, tried to back track and repair what went wrong.

Because of this, I don't think he would live totally isolated and miserable, but it would take him a long time to be able to understand why someone would be genuinely nice to him, forgive him when he can't forgive himself.


:bulletblack: When has Snape ever looked past the James in Harry?

Harry has Lily's eyes. That fact did not escape Severus the first time he laid eyes on Harry during Harry's first year. Dumbledore constantly reminded Severus that Harry was Lily's son. Severus, even though Harry visually reminded him of James, spent his time attempting, in his abrasive, vinidictive manner, to teach Harry important life lessons.

But, to reiterate a known fact, Harry reminded Severus of his pre-teen and adolescent years, the most prevalent years of a person's life. Pre-teens and teenagers are extremely easy to mold in terms of beliefs, friend groups, and first impressions - whether that impression be positive (as Severus' was of Lily) or negative (as was his view of James).

To be fair to Severus, James ridiculed him and was, in Severus' memory, aside from saving his life, the one person Severus associated with humiliation. And Harry, resembling James physically and somewhat personality wise, became the source for Severus' pent up anger. That does not justify Severus' treatment of Harry.

However, there are plenty of times when Harry's eyes come in handy as reminders of who his mother is. So, Severus is dealing with a huge struggle, to reconcile who Harry reminds him of: Lily, sweet, accepting, kind friend (who later refused to accept his apology or dissuade him from being a Death Eater) and James: arrogant, belittling rich bully with Harry-the-Indvidiual - a.k.a. the Harry that Ron and Hermione know.

Severus would not have protected Harry all those years if he truly only saw James in him.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012
I think he would have protected him anyway, regarding the very last thing you said. He wasn't protecting Harry FOR Harry, or because he cared. He was protecting Harry for Lily.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
However, I don't think, after many years passed, that he was only doing it for Lily. If that were the case he wouldn't have chosen to bind himself to Dubmbledore and become a double agent. He didn't originally agree to Dubmledore's proposal for Lily's sake, he did it to earn himself redemption in his own eyes for the role he believed he played in Lily's death.

After awhile, I think, aside from the purposeful one-dimension we saw him through in the series, that Snape found himself caring for Harry, although he would never admit it.
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JulesDrenages Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2012
Sorry to butt in: it's clearly stated in The Prince's Tale that, when Severus goes mad at Dumbledore for revealing that Harry has been protected so he can die at the proper moment ("Like a pig for slaughter"), and Albus asks him if Severus has come to care for the boy at last, Snape evokes the Doe and there comes the famous "Always" exchange. I think it's made pretty clear that, at this point of the story (sixth year, more or less?) Snape does not care for Harry as an individual.
I can agree with the fact that, in the end, he learned to value life for what it is: he saves Lupin at the end of DH, for example; he would probably have saved Harry (if he wasn't Lily's son) so much as Ron or another student, because at the end of his life he understood that all lives are meaningful, not only those of the one he loves. But he never cared for Harry personally, because his grudges didn't let him see the boy for who he really was: a person much more similar to his beloved Lily than James.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:bulllebule: "Care for the boy" versus "Doe."

I would beg to differ. Severus has held onto his love for Lily, and that, I do concede, fuels his choice to protect Harry.

However, Rowling has also stated in interviews that she's painted characters in a pretty one-dimensional way for the advancement of the plot. No, Severus wouldn't "love Harry as his own son," but I think there would be inklings of some sort of emotion toward Harry, whether or not Severus attempts to deny the fact.
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JulesDrenages Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2012
Oh, I do think there is emotion there, though probably not the one you meant.
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dporgasmatron Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I agree- I can't imagine Snape having a good life after the war. I think it would be an amazingly awkward life, almost like hell- because there would be no purpose. I don't even think he would try! Knowing that he'd be one day swarmed with ass tons of Weasley-Potter children would be enough for him to run head long for the Astronomy Tower and over the edge.

I think he should have had a way better death though. An epic death. A worthy death, gone out in the heat of battle, or something. Or maybe the same death in a better setting. God. The Shrieking Shack should be razed.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I disagree. In terms of his role as a Double Agent, and the importance of keeping his work for the Order a secret, Severus has to be alongside Voldemort in his final scene. It makes sense, with the Shrieking Shack's significance in the series, that Voldemort would choose the Shack as a respite and safe haven to protect Nagini.

None of the inhabitants of Hogsmede would investigate goings on in the Shrieking Shack, as they believe that the Shack is haunted.

In terms of the Shrieking Shack itself, the house itself did nothing to Severus. It was Sirius Black who lured Severus to the Whomping Willow where he discovered Remus' secret. That memory, and Jame's actions being lauded as heroic, were negative memories associated with the Shack. Not to mention that the second time he traveled to the Shack in Harry's third year was also the doing of Sirius and Remus.

In terms of his death, I don't believe Severus would have ever preferred the Swashbuckling heoric end. His Asocial personality and prickly attitude wouldn't have been suited to a "out with a big bang" end.

I think, in his own way, Severus was always in more danger than any of the other characters, even Sirius, whose main fault was being reckless in the face of danger.

Severus died at Voldemort's hand, a fitting end for his work as a double agent, as he was the one responsible for handicapping Voldemort's rise to power by not being honest about whose allegiance the Elder Wand held. He died at the mercy of the one person he truly betrayed.

In that way, dying in relative isolation, and giving his memories to Harry, was very fitting. Although, I disagreed with the Order not retrieving his body from the Shack to give him a proper burial.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
YES the stupid Shrieking Shack. It had it in for Sev from early on.

Also I must mention...Dad and I watched The Expendables II and there was so much badass going on. It made me miss Abraxas. So much badassery in one small wizard!

How are you doing? We need to chat again.
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dporgasmatron Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
YES. STUPID THING.

Oh god, I know. He's like many action movies packed into one pint-sized frame. XD I miss him too, even though he occasionally pushes things over in my head.

We do need to chat! I apologize for being so MIA. I'm just exhausted from working so much with no down time :( When is good for you?
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
that's okay, I understand. Any time except Monday evening I'm babysitting.
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MoonyMina Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
beautifully said... I totally agree with you... his story really is heart-breaking... I couldn't have imagined another end for him...
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
Yes, it is rather heartbreaking. *sniffs*
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Fayzbub Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
I also had some questions about what Snape could have done with his life. If you'd care to see what I came up with, go to "Back to Basics" in my DeviantArt gallery. You might also like to see how I envisage Harry honoring Snape's memory more than he did by giving his second son a second name of Severus, in "The Tribute". Both are quite short.
Fayzbub
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Could you provide a link for Back to the Basics?
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Fayzbub Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2012
Sorry I didn't answer this before, I've been off-line. The link's below, I hope you enjoy the story.

[link]
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think you did a great job showing his regret and how he's decided to live his life! :-)
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lemonade8 Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
I'm a little surprised that Harry used his name for his second son, actually. This is the man who actively wished that LV would kill a man who once saved his life and his infant son. I said it. He wished death on an infant. Canon Snape has a lot of flaws, and even his love was a bit ugly as it was mostly obsession. The grudges were extreme as well. He held on to so many of them for so many years that I came away thinking he was quite insane most of the time. However, he used that obsession to help him achieve revenge on LV, which helped everyone. Also, Dumbledore believed in him and trusted him, so perhaps there was some good in him under all of that bitterness and hate, and there is nothing I like better than someone pulling themself out of the mud and getting some redemption.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
I didn't really get the impression that he 'wished death on an infant' unless I missed something. I know he asked Dumbledore to protect LILY meaning he didn't care if James or Harry was protected, but I didn't personally equate that with some vengeful, mean sort of thing that he wanted Harry to die. It seemed to me he was just so tunnel-vision for Lily, and so distraught at the thought of her death...basically nothing else mattered but Lily. Ever. I can't really believe that his love was ugly, either. It wasn't a normal romantic sort of love. Maybe I would say it was a misunderstood love...I'm not sure. He was however quite the extreme character, as you said.
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lemonade8 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
When Dumbledore mentioned that didn't he care that Lily's son would die (and James) Snape was aware that it would happen and was indifferent to the fact they would be killed. Jo has stated in an interview that Snape resented that Harry should have been his, and he intensely disliked him because of this. In his mind he was okay with facilitating the death of the infant. As long as he could 'have' Lily to himself, LV killing Harry was acceptable. Jo describes him as a 'deeply horrible person' and she wrote him as such, imo. She did, however, give him redeeming qualities as he matured, and I know his personal sacrifice and the horrible things he had to do to help the good side win were something that I think only a very driven person could accomplish. That he was convinced that keeping Harry alive was what he owed Lily helped Harry survive and have a good life eventually.

I find his love a bit ugly simply because it is tainted with obsession. He joined death eaters knowing they would persecute her because of her blood status, so his love, while devoted in one sense, didn't matter in another. Her well being wasn't taken into consideration, his need for power was more important to him at one point. That he mourned the loss of her after it was too late doesn't make me sympathetic to his right to her, but sad that he couldn't get past his obsessions to see what was really important. He tried his best to make it up to her, but he still ended up verbally abusing her son, even while keeping him alive. I don't think he really ever remotely liked Harry, even deep down- I never saw it in the books.
His brilliance and potential are fascinating and that he had the affection of Lily and Dumbledore said that he probably had more decency inside him than he let out. For that, I am a fan. I am not blind to the bad things that he did, and I still think he's an AMAZING literary anti-hero, but I don't forget his sins.

And I think you don't have to see him like I do, but I thought you deserved an explanation of why I thought what I did when I posted on your essay.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
In terms of his dedication to Lily I think that Severus' feelings progressed naturally from friendship to love. In terms of child hood Lily was Severus' only friend and knew more about him than anybody, even Albus. I think it's unfair, in their dynamic, to lay all the blame for their friendship being uneven on Severus' shoulders, especially since Lily could have fought more to keep him safe.

I do agree that Severus' treatment of Harry was unfair. There is no excuse more bullying a child. Most of Severus transferring all his anger at James onto Harry, who took the physical appearance of his father. Severus, who has spent his whole life feeding to a double-persona, should have understood that Harry is an individual and treated him with respect.

On the other hand, I do think that Lily's inaction is ignored. She knew that Severus, after having been harassed herself, would face danger amongst the Slyerins. She did not do everything in her power to help Severus face adversity and get the teachers to notice that he was being treated unfairly or in any type of danger. She can't have been naive enough to think that Severus' choice to take part in Dark Arts was purely for harmful reason, she should have been more forward with her fears and gone to Minerva, Albus or Horace about Severus' situation. Instead she acted a "damsel in distress" and made it seem like Severus calling her a Mudblood was the worst thing he could do. Although she didn't agree with him being friends with Mulciber and the DEs in training, she definitely turned her back on him.

I think he did have a decent bone in his body, he does have a heart as he has demonstrated on countless times. Would a heartless, self-serving man agree to protect a mis-led 17 year-old boy - that boy being Draco, if he didn't care about anyone? Severus didn't agree to kill Albus, at Albus' bidding, out of self-hatred, obsessive love for Lily or anything of the sort. Severus agreed to kill Albus so that Draco wouldn't face a death sentence from Voldemort. He made an Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa, the penalty for which is death, for the protection of Draco, that shouldn't be forgotten.

No Severus wasn't perfect. He was far from it. But he isn't a despicable human being, heartless and evil. He's a complicated man who made bad choices as a child, and despite his "sins" as you call them, he did earn some sort of redemption.
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lemonade8 Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2012
I know I don't sound like a Snape fan, but I really am. I need to put this out there because of my uncharacteristically harsh judgement of him in this discussion.

But saying that, I strongly disagree that Lily owed him anything. She was his loyal childhood muggleborn friend and he joined a group of death eaters. If his best friend had been black, then at school he joined the KKK and proceeded to call her the N word- would she be expected to keep letting him verbally abuse her as long as he was really sorry afterward? That scene was her last straw, she mentioned that she had tried to keep up the friendship for a long time prior. He just finally crossed the line of no return. I would have been gone the second I heard that he had joined a group that persecuted people like me and wanted their deaths. What would she have been able to accomplish by tattling on him? It's not like it was a huge secret and that Dumbledore didn't already know about the pureblood supremacy activity, he participated in it- LED IT- long before Lily was born. Thankfully he changed his ways, but still.

And I don't buy that he was in danger in Slytherin. There were only a few kids in Slytherin who were racists, the rest of them didn't die because they weren't death eaters, they lived on just fine. He simply wanted power; he was a powerless boy raised in an abusive environment and I can see why that would appeal to him, but he was foolish as teenagers are sometimes and made an almost unforgivable choice. That Lily was the only mudblood that he cared about saving doesn't say much about his character at that point, that he was condoning murder was bad. that he embraced a serial-killing madman out for power wasn't very awesome.

He didn't want to kill Albus. He ended up doing it so that Albus wouldn't have to endure torture from Bella and Greyback as much as it was to save Draco. The vow wouldn't cost him extra because he had already agreed to do it for Albus should the time come. That said I think he liked Draco, felt sorry for what he had been forced to do and see, and especially reveled in the fact that he was thwarting the dark lord. And he did protect Harry, then was disgusted that after all that effort he was going to be led to slaughter at the exact right time. There was compassion in him in the end, at least a little. And I loved when he stepped in front of his worst fear (werewolves) to save the trio. That said more to me early on than anything. He was willing to die for the kids, even though he wasn't kind to them. There is something redeeming in that and even through his faults he pretty much saved wizardkind.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
What would she have been able to accomplish by tattling on him?

Would you allow you friend to join a gang? Really think about the inaction you would have to partake in to let your friend go down a dangerous road. You would have to keep their activity a secret from their family, your other friends, and you would feel guilt and responsibility if they were seriously injured in the process.

Would you call it tattling if you told your parents, their parents, or authorities that could intervene before they got hurt?

I'm saying that Lily could have stuck up for Severus more, pushed Hoarce, Minerva and other teachers to have a "no tolerance" policy for physically harmful and emotionally scarring ridicule. If Lily truly cared she would have put aside Severus' pride and made the teacher's address their inaction toward any students - including James and Sirius - who put other students in physical or emotional jeopardy.

It's isn't tattling. It's going to an adult - who's job by the way, teachers especially, is to oversee and protect minors from physical harm - and asking them to take an active role, which they have agreed to, in order to stop violence from peer to peer, it's why older, exemplary students are given the role of Prefect and Head Boy/ Head Girl.

There were plenty of teachers: Minerva, Filius, Hoarace, Syball (most likely), etc. who did not buy into Pure-Bloodism and should have stepped up to prevent the kind of ridicule James subjected Severus to- ridicule, which in the real world - most often poliferates into school shootings or the ridiculed committing suicide.

He wasn't in danger? Are you joking me? He was a Half-blood, he would have been seen as tainted, no matter his proficiency at curses and spells. His looks alone would be ample fodder for ridicule, his mother's marriage to his father, his lack of hygiene, his hooked nose, and aloof nature all are aspect fo his personality that would be hightlighted by bullies, not just James and Sirius, but extreme Pure-Bloodism.

He admitted to Lily, when they were 10 or 11, that he didn't believe in Pure-Bloodism. The only reason he would have succumbed to that life-style would have been for self-defense and half-way because he was interested in understanding the Dark Arts. But, his need to understand the Dark Arts fully would not have led him to become a Death Eater. He got swept up in a cause bigger than him, and if he didn't accept it he would have faced dangerous, if not life-threatening circumstances from his House Mates.

He didn't want to embrace Voldemort (Hilter reincarnated with magic). It was an "embrace" or "die" situation, as it was made painfully clear in Lucius' situation, who had a wife and son to protect. If you didn't join, as Lily and James and Frank and Alice did you were killed or tortured to insanity.

If someone said "Join my movement or die" the average human, on basic instinct, would join the movement. We are selfish, we want to live our lives the way we see fit, and in the life or death situations we choose the path the most likely leads to life. We're hard wired to want to live.

You're right. He didn't want to kill Albus, but a man who was vindictive and unworthy of Lily's friendship (by the way it's not very Gryffindor to be disloyal to your friends) would not have promised a frantic mother - under pain of death (the penalty for breaking and Unbreakable Vow) - to take on her son's task (kill Ablus). Severus is not without compassion he just doesn't have high enough self-esteem to grant himself belief in good qualities he possesses.

I do know that Rowling always intended him to be a clear "villian" in the sense that he felt responsible for Lily's death, and seemed to care little for Harry or James' lives in the process. He was not the one, however, who betrayed them.

Severus is complicated, but the choices he ended up making in life, the ones he regretted, cold have been amply avoided if teachers took greater preventative measures, and if Lily had truly tried to get someone to help Severus. After all, it wasn't his interest in the Dark Arts that made her discount their friendship. She, on a simple scale, understood his motivations despite disagreeing with him. It's the "friends" he made she disagreed with and thought were dangerous. And if she had gone to at teacher and said "I fear for his well-being." and called into stark reality the teachers' inaction in terms of the physical ridicule students put each other through, which goes way further than the "typical name calling," there could have been a brighter future for their friendship and a safer future for Severus.
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lemonade8 Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
Here goes:
*I will never agree that Lily holds responsibility for Snape's bad choices. Ever. And Dumbledore knew what was going on more than Lily. Adult responsibility goes to the adults, not the kids.

*If Snape was in mortal peril in the Slytherin dorms, why did ALL OTHER Slytherins survive and NOT die while going to Hogwarts? That's because he wasn't. He wanted power and respect, which I understand that motivating him but doesn't excuse the fact that he joined a group that wanted his best friend dead.

*You said he didn't WANT to embrace Voldemort, but at first he was MORE than eager to spy and bring him the prophecy as a loyal lackey. He was fully supporting LV killing that family as long as he could have Lily. He only changed his mind after her murder. ONLY.

*And that leads to the fact that he really was one of the betrayers of the Potters. Without him handing over the prophecy, Voldemort would have been after neither the Potters nor the Longbottoms. Wormtail was a betrayer, but that doesn't negate that Snape was the initial one.

*And you believe that even though Dumbledore allowed Sirius to attend after attempted murder, allows acromantulas and three headed dogs and dementors to have access to kids, allowed Harry to face Voldemort with his full knowledge at age 11, allowed a fourth year to act as bait in the triwizard tournament, took a seventeen year old through a lake of inferi, that the overall prevailing attitude in the wizarding world was pro-pureblood agenda... even after reading *all* that through seven books and you can say that Lily coming to Dumbledore and saying "Severus is getting picked on and he's joining with pure-blood supremacists, can you stop it?" was going to do one lick of good...

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
1) However, bystanders of bullying situations, through their inaction are responsible, in part, for the brutal outcome of a situation. Students should stick up for their peers, and Lily being Severus' friend could have easily gone to Horace or Minerva and told them about James' actions. Then, you're right, after she had gone to Minerva or Horace or any other authority figure the "ball would be in that adult's court" to do whatever they deemed necessary. That's why there are Prefects and a Head Boy and Girl, to enforce rules and be a "bridge" between minors and adults.

2) I am not saying it's Lily's fault that Severus made bad choices. I'm just saying that, through omission of any solid evidence, Rowling doesn't gives us much physical proof, through memories or otherwise of what Lily DID do to keep her friendship with Severus going. All we see is Severus snap under continued ridicule, lash out at the first person to try to help him (Lily) and then Lily say "after all I've tried to do to remain friends this is the last straw." I will admit that in some ways Severus' interest in the Dark Arts did encourage the natural "growing apart" between him and Lily. However, Severus doesn't actually believe in Pure-Bloodism nor did he intend for his spells to be used in harmful ways, although I do admit Sectumempra is a horrible spell, there is also a Coutner Charm which he created for the defensive spell.

3) Because most Slytherins in Slytherin House were Purebloods, or so we are made to believe by Rowling's framing of the House itself. Severus, having a Muggle father, would be, aside from his magical prowess, a "sore thumb," so to speak within the ranks of the Slytherins. Heck, he kept the fact that he was a half-blood a secret for most of the time living a life of double-personality between Severus-with-Lily-Sev and Sevrus-Within-Slytherin-Sev. I'm not saying Severus would have died, but he would have faced ridicule until he could learn to prove himself to his housemates, despite his mother's pureblood relatives.

4) Did you ever think that he got roped into being a Death Eater without truly understanding the scope of Voldemort's Purebloodism? In relation to the clear symoblism of Death Eaters being like Nazis, not all Death Eaters joined Voldemort's ranks because they believed in his "cause." Some of them were threatened with "die or be a Death Eater." But, because we never see a compete profile of young Severus we can't fully understand the reasons he joined, but I will concede that some of those reasons did have to do with power and respect, although he received neither of those things.

5) He handed over the prophecy, but he couldn't have known the true reason Voldemort wanted it. Inner circle or no, Severus wasn't privy to all of Voldemort's thoughts or motivations. He clearly felt guilt and remorse for what he did, and in no small amount horror at the lengths to which Voldemort would go to create a Pure Society.

6) Point by point:

:bulletgreen: Sirius' intention with luring Severus into the Whomping Willow was not to kill him. In Sirus' mind Severus being forced to confront Remus' wereworlf form was "due consequence" of him snooping into what Sirus considered "private business." Yes, it was a prank that nearly led to Severus' death or serious injury, but the original intention wasn't to kill Severus. And, Sirius did pay a heavy price both through punishment (which is hinted at but not expanded on) and through the disapproval and near banishment from his main friend group that he faced when both James and Remus felt betrayed. Albus impressed upon Sirus the seriousness of his actions. However, expelling him from his education, in the face of other options, outweighed the action he committed, after all he did fully admit to thinking of the whole situation as a prank. That doesn't make Sirius' actions okay, but it also doesn't warrant painting Albus in a bad light for allowing Sirius to continue his education, as the risk of the situation was that, taking into consideration Albus' choices, would be to expel both Sirius (for his endangerment of another student) and Remus (for the danger he posed 12 time a year to not only the student body but also to Hogsmede).

:bulletgreen: The Forbidden Forest, being both a forest and a magical woodland, holds creatures that are dangerous, minus the original reason for Aragog being in the forest in the first place. The Forbidden Forest, much to it's names meaning, is Forbidden to students not just because of Arcromantulas but also for the dangers posed by the Centarus and other creatures living within the forest. Do you suggest that Albus should kill the Acromantulas? I don't think that's fair to the ecosystem of the forest, nor is it fair to any other animal that poses any other sorts of dangers. So, instead, the Forest is an out-of-bounds territory for students, for their safety.

:bulletgreen: Again, Fluffy isn't allowed to roam the school. The Third Floor Corridor is off limits, not only for the Stone's protection, for which Fluffy is the first centinal, but also for the protection of the students. Harry, Ron and Hermione should not have been in the corridor. In fact, the argument that Albus "allowed" Fluffy to be in the same castle as students is a bit harsh. Yes he is a danger, but he's also contained in that room, under magical wards at the end of a corridor that is off limits.

:bulletgreen: Albus in no way condoned Dementors being on Hogwarts' grounds. In fact, after Harry falls off his broom Ablus becomes enraged that Cornelius Fudge ordered the Dementors on school grounds. The Dementors were on Hgowarts ground at the Minister of Magic's bidding, and as Fudge has the power of a president, Albus can't veto Fudge's wishes. Rowling made it clear Albus was livid that the Dementors were anywhere near the Students.

:bulletgreen: Voldemort would have outright attacked Harry no matter what, as he would have forced Quirrel at some point to hurt Harry. I do agree that at age 11 Harry should not have been in that situation, nor the preceding three (year 4, year 5 and year 6). However, despite their best efforts Voldmeort found ways to infiltrate Hogwarts and put others at risk.

:bulletgreen: The Triwizard Tournament is a much-debated topic of the Wizarding World. Many disagree with the dangers, however the Minister of Magic as well as others deemed it safe to hold the Tournament. However, like Ron's Unbreakable Vow story from his childhood, the Triwizard Tournament's contestants are bound through magical contract, which does not include forfeit. Because Barty Crouch Jr put Harry's name in the cup there wasn't a way anyone, not even Albus, could break the contract. That was made pretty clear, which is why Albus constructed the age line in the first place.

:bulletgreen: Harry wasn't forced by Albus to hunt down the fake Ring. Harry chose, at the age of 17, the age of adulthood in the Wizarding World, to go. In fact, Albus said several times that Harry was going to be in great danger and that he could turn back. At this point Harry chose to got with Albus as a consenting ADULT not a misguided PRE-TEEN.

:bulletgreen: It was made pretty obvious in the books, that Albus felt guilty for his previous thought process when he followed Grindlewald. He stopped beleving in Pure-Bloodism as he grew older and realized the benefit of cooperation and unity in society. It's made pretty clear that many of Voldemort's followers, even Lucius and Narcissa, were either forced under penalty of 'join or die' or joined for self-preservation. Except for the minority of wizards like Bellatrix or other magic-wielding creatures like werewolves and persecuted creatures like Trolls and Giants joined Voldemort without much convincing. A majority of society however small the order seemed, did not actually believe in Pure-bloodism. Although Rowling didn't demonstrate that in the books for the obvious reason of needing a clear vilian/hero set up.

I do think that Lily voicing her opinion on Severus' day to day torments, at the hands of other students, would have done some good with getting Albus invovled. At the point that Lily was in school Albus had already started regretting his previous actions and trying to reverse his reputation. So, yes, I do think that Lily standing up an saying "It's wrong that Sev is being bullied, and I fear for his safety in Slytherin house, because I think people are influencing him into a dangerous path" would have done a great deal of good. Minerva would have stood behind her as would have several other teachers. Even if they couldn't stop Severus' final decision they could offer him a safer route (the Order) to go. That would have been Lily's greatest effort to maintain hold on her friend, and after all that, if Severus still chose to become a Death Eater then I could understand Lily not talking to him ever again.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
I just have one small thing to say regarding one of the reasons Snape probably liked hanging out with the soon to be DE's while in school...well first of all, they were his house mates. Secondly he did know a lot of curses, hexes, etc and he was very smart. I would imagine that maybe he impressed them with his knowledge, maybe they even wanted him to teach them the hexes and curses, and Severus would have eaten that up I think. He wasn't a very impressive child given his looks, hygiene, size, and personality but the ace up his sleeve was his knowledge and bunch of wanna be dark wizards in his House would want to share in that knowledge. Severus was also with these people in his house ALL the time basically. He was with them more than he was with Lily. He heard them talking all the time, pressuring him, etc. The word 'mudblood' might have just rubbed off on him from being around it so much.
For example when I was a teen I was obsessed with The Beatles. Sometimes I would listen to them so much, I'd start slipping into an English accent sometimes without meaning to.
I'm just saying the word itself would have been around him a lot. That doesn't make it okay, it's just something to consider. As for why he said it then, with the intensity he did, he was extremely humiliated and angry, and Snape has his pride. It was probably even more humiliating to have a *girl* coming to his rescue. Once again...that doesn't make it right. I'm just saying in the context of boyhood...being saved by a girl is not so great. Snape is also stubborn, maybe he wouldn't have wanted *anyone* to help him fight his battles, not just Lily. "Stay out of it, I can handle it" even if he couldn't always handle James and co. I can just imagine him being like that. He seems like the sort of person who wouldn't want to take help, might see it as an insult or charity, even if the person means well.
Also, the times that Lily 'saved' him during a fight, well teens spread everything. The whole school would know it, including his Slytherin dorm mates who he no doubt wanted to impress. Being saved by Lily would be the same as saying that Snape was too weak to fight his own battles, and he wanted to be ANYTHING but weak. Saved by a girl! A Gryffindor! A Mudblood! That looks horrible for him to the people he was trying to impress and Severus hates being seen as weak, he hates being embarrassed, etc. Just some thoughts showing that surely he and Lily both saw her intervening very differently: she saw it as a friend helping a friend, he sees it as damaging.
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JulesDrenages Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2012
Sorry to butt in again, but -though I do think that Severus had a decent bone in his body- I have to disagree.
About the Mudblood incident: it's made clear in the books that at that point of their lives, their friendship was strained. It happens. People change, relationships change and they were taking opposite paths. At that particular moment, calling Lily a "Mudblood" WAS the worst thing Severus could do. It was gratuitous, spiteful, totally uncalled for and low. If Lily ever needed a final straw, that was it and she was right to act like she did. She didn't "turn her back on him", she stood up for herself when he went too far with his attitude.
About her presumed "inaction": there's nothing in canon that suggest Severus' life at Hogwarts was a total Hell. He probably had a hard time winning the favour of his fellow Slytherins (being half-blood and all), but we're told he knew lots of curses from a young age, was interested in the Dark Arts and at school hung out with Avery, Mulciber and several other Slytherins that ended up becoming Death Eaters, so I'm pretty sure he succeeded. They may not have been his best friends, but surely he was able to integrate pretty well among them. His rivalry with the Marauders (mostly James) was a nasty affair, of course, especially the four-on-one bullying, but Snape was not always the poor submissive victim: even in SWM, as soon as he has the chance, he attacks James with Sectumsempra (and it's said that the two of them kept hexing each other on principle). It was a feud and it went both ways. More or less like Harry and Malfoy (with a bit more of cursing, probably): how many of their friends run to the teachers reporting their brawls? In a school full of teens with wands? Lily was not inactive: she spoke to her friend about her doubts, about the choices he was making, about the dangerous path he was taking. That's what a concerned friend does and calling him on his questionable decisions was more useful than running to the Headmaster. It's his fault he didn't listen to her.
I may agree with the fact that Severus needed help to get out of his bitterness, but it was not Lily's job to save him from himself at that extent.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
She didn't "turn her back on him", she stood up for herself when he went too far with his attitude.

Yet there is not print evidence book or otherwise that calls Lily's previous inaction into account. I'm not completely defending Severus' choices here, I'm just saying nobody takes into consideration the danger he faced as Half-blood who didn't agree with Pureblood-ism in Slytherin House. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Lily ever pointed out to Albus or anyone else that James and Sirius' ridicule of Severus surpassed teasing and bordered on physically damaging. Nor is there evidence to suggest that Lily voiced her fears for his safety, among some clearly marked Death Eaters, to anyone but Severus.

In the end it isn't Severus' interest in the Dark Arts that turns Liy away him. She understood on a basic level his original motivations - for which he developed some amazing defensive curses and counters and an advanced levitation charm that both sides use (one to torment (DE) and one to escort injured folk to infirmaries (DA) - for becoming interested in Dark Magic.

It's the friends, whose actions were never brought to anyone's attentions, nor did teachers take action to prevent innocent people from being indoctrinated into a movement far beyond their understanding, she has a problem with.

Severus, at the point of the Mudblood Incident (which Rowling never addresses) was put out by the fact that James and Sirius were never seriously reprimanded for the harmful bullying they inflicted. By the time he snapped he had tried his hardest to survive in Slytherin house (no matter his prowess with magic) and survive day to day at the hands of some vindictive tormentors. Lily knew this yet made no attempt to call teachers into action to stop it.

I agree, it was a final straw for him to call her a Mudblood, but in the context of the situation it slipped out. He didn't precognitively decide to call her Mudblood, it slipped out in a moment of stress and anger. That doesn't justify the emotional pain it caused Lily, but nobody ever addressed that fact that Lily is held to this pedestal and none of her flaws are ever hightlighted.

there's nothing in canon that suggest Severus' life at Hogwarts was a total Hell.

Exactly my original point. Rowling doesn't address the fact at all. So what if he integrate well? He figured out how to pander to them, a survival tactic. His interest in the Dark Arts was also mostly for survival, as we know his home life was violent.

There's a difference in making friends (as he did with Lily at age 9) and avoiding making enemies (as he did with Mulciber, Avery a few other Slytherins. Him ambitions were never to hurt others with magic but to understand the Dark Arts.

Well almost not to hurt anyone. There's seems to be hints that he wouldn't have minded hurting his father.

she spoke to her friend about her doubts, about the choices he was making, about the dangerous path he was taking. That's what a concerned friend does and calling him on his questionable decisions was more useful than running to the Headmaster.

Again reiterating my original point. She only talked to Severus. Beyond that she made not motion to talk to anybody who had the power to instate rules that could prevent mindless bullying or feuds. Running to the Headmaster would have been a smart decisions, as he fears about Severus' choices also extended to his well-being.

In a situation where Minors, a majority of Hogwarts students (in fact only one year are adults (year 7)) are minors. It is the responsibility, legally, of adults to ensure the safety, physical well-being and emotional stability of minors with or without magic involved. Surely she could have gone to Minverva and Horace at the very least and pointed out the danger of the situation, pushed for the adults to take an active role in no tolerance for violent use of magic between students.
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JulesDrenages Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
> Exactly my original point. Rowling doesn't address the fact at all. So what if he integrate well?

If he was integrated among the Slytherins (and reading the books I got the impression that he was), even as a survival tactic (not so convinced of this, though: he may not have been pureblood, but the Slytherin traits *are* there), it seems very unlikely, in my opinion, that "by the time he snapped he had tried his hardest to survive in Slytherin house".
Again, I may agree that at first there must have been some kind of adjustment, but to name his house mates as a cause of torment, especially in his later years, is a bit too much, for me.
My point was: Severus may not have been the most popular boy at Hogwarts, but his troubles seemed to come mostly from the Marauders, with whom the feud was mutual - we see him being taken down in SWM on a two-vs-one fight, but we also see him react as soon as he as the chance and we're told that, later, he never lost a chance to hex James. This kind of rivalry doesn't ease your school days, okay, but goes both ways. We see him defeated in the infamous memory, but even then, Snape doesn't strike me as the helpless victim that can nothing against his tormentors. He gave back what he got.
In this light, he was not in much more danger than all the other students that ended up on the wrong side of a wand-fight.
Right or not, Hogwarts is a school of magic where students are allowed to bring wands with them all the time and can come in touch with all kind of hexes, even at a young age. Teachers punish when they can (we know that the Marauders spent lots of time in detention for their pranks), but most of the time, they let go (Snape, in GOF, should have punished both Harry and Draco for trying to hex each other and firing the spells that hit Goyle and Hermione instead - he just sends Goyle to the infirmary and take action against Harry and Ron only when they yell at him; McGonagall is more stern, but she can't keep an eye on all the students all the time; Slughorn even *praises* Ginny for her Bat-Bogey-Hex).
One can agree that adults should pay more attention to their minors, but it seems that in the WW, wand-fight are not different from common brawls: in a school full of teens, you can't be everywhere.
Severus' situation generally was not so terrible to request that much attention: the Shack prank was the most serious accident he and the Marauders got involved into, and was dealt with by Dumbledore himself, so it's safe to assume he knew about their feud.

About the Mudblood Incident: in the context of the situation, I can feel some sympathy for Severus because he's the one being humiliated, but such a racial slur does not simply "slip out", even in that situation. First of all, he had no reason to turn against Lily in the first place, for she was the only one trying to actively help him - I can understand his humiliation and the need to send her away, but lashing out at James calling her a "Filthy little *anything*" would have been too much in any case.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
"One can agree that adults should pay more attention to their minors, but it seems that in the WW, wand-fight are not different from common brawls: in a school full of teens, you can't be everywhere."

However, the reason Prefects and the Head Boy and Head Girl have those positions is to enforce the rules - which include "not using magic between classes in the halls."

I will concede there are teacher who play favorites, which results in unbalanced punishments. That can't be changed. But, there is a different between brawling - James vs. Severus - and torment Marauders vs. Severus. I just think, even in Muggle standards, teachers should involve themselves more fully into promoting and acting out proper conduct.

"First of all, he had no reason to turn against Lily in the first place, for she was the only one trying to actively help him - I can understand his humiliation and the need to send her away, but lashing out at James calling her a "Filthy little *anything*" would have been too much in any case."

Coming from a childhood wherein I was ridiculed for things I couldn't change about myself, there were moments of humiliation and out of anger at others for "watching it happen" where I called friends and other students horrible names I wouldn't normally have used.

Severus, having been around Mulicber and Avery, and a house unafraid to use racial slurs, would be, at this point unfiltered. He was "de-panted" in front of the entire student body. If wouldn't have mattered if another Muggle-born student, not Lily, defended him. He wasn't thinking about the words that came from his mouth, and he clearly did not mean them as his apology proves.
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jaynedarcy Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Google Logospilgrim. She has written several fascinating books about Severus Snape from a very spiritual and educated viewpoint. She herself is a self-proclaimed mystic (of the religious sort) but she has spoken to those of us in the fandom better than anyone else has - because she lives it. What you have written makes a great deal of sense, and as much as I will say that I hate that Severus died, I knew from the first book that he would.

If you don't want to anger those in the fandom, and you want your essay to be taken seriously, then don't title it Snape Deserved to Die... that just incites anger. Furthermore, your essay is saying that Snape needed to die, not that he deserved to die. Saying that he deserves to die equates with Voldemort also deserving death.

Stand by your writing, for you have something worth it to say. However, immaturity shows when the first thing you write specifically targets your audiences anger and annoyance.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
Oh, I did mention the anger thing in the first sentence didn't I. I forgot. Well, I did change the title because you pointing that out was right. So once again, thanks. Snape fans should stick together, not offend one another.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
Well, I wasn't trying to annoy people. I just wanted to grab attention. I will think about changing it though, you make a very valid point. Thanks for pointing that out too.
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MadameAsasello Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I would not use the word 'deserve' because it implies a very heavy guilt... one somebody would sentence to death for. And my personal world view is against claiming that anyone deserves death.

I'd rather say that his death was inevitable, with the set of circumstances given in the book. I would also say that he had to take his own death into account, when he was doing his job. I agree that he is a very tragic hero with no prospects for future. And yes, this death could be a great reassurance for himself. This would make it less noble and heroic than it seems - after all, he would agree to die in order to escape from the pain and remain fixed on his obsession forever. To me, he is tragic also because of his resistance to the 'therapy' of feelings - considering both Lilly and the relationship with Harry...

You did not manage to anger me because I agree with mot theses :P. However, the word you used in the title seems too harsh to me. That makes the first impression of the essay quite ambivalent.
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AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
Well, I did use "deserve" basically to draw attention. I love Snape, so of course I'm not coldhearted about him. :) Glad I didn't anger you, though.
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brewing-trouble Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
While I agree that with the way he was written, there would have been no place for him after.... One thing that's always bothered me about the HP series was that I REALLY don't actually like JKR's portrayal of relationships in the story.

Basically she has written a story about a world where apparently, people become attached to their One Great Love (apparently usually in Hogwarts... seems like most of the married couples we see in canon met at school and wound up with the person they liked best at the end of those 7 years!), and then never ever try to get with anyone else again if they lose that person for any reason. They stay single forever... wounded, forever.
We see this pattern with Dumbledore (who lost his love and apparently never had the heart to find anyone else... surely there must have been other gay wizards out there or a gay muggle who'd have caught his eye!), Snape (natch), Xenophilius Lovegood (no candidates for a new wife, and it's been at least 6 years... men are much more likely to remarry after losing a spouse than women), Merope Gaunt (I don't care that she's ugly, not everyone in the world is beautiful, although her abused upbringing would have worked against her), and McGonagall (in her backstory, she gave up her love - a Muggle - so that she wouldn't have to give up her magic... and then NEVER FOUND ANYONE AGAIN!) are probably the most notable examples. Admittedly, too, we see just a flash, but Snape's own parents' relationship didn't look very happy, and yet his mother would rather stay there, be abused (?) and be unhappy than leave and try to find someone else. In fact - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I don't recall a SINGLE CHARACTER in the books that either remarried or was the product of a mixed marriage/got a new step-parent or step-sibling, which is very odd considering HOW OFTEN people in real life go on to have other relationships or remarry.

And frankly, I never liked it. I don't think that's healthy. Not all relationships work out. People grow apart and can change. But people ALSO CAN HEAL and learn to love others again, and I find that especially ironic since JKR is a remarried divorcee herself, with children both by her former and current husbands.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:bulletgreen: Albus Dumbledore

First of all, being homosexual during Albus Dumbledore's early life was life-threatening. For him to be outed would have only been possible, but not safe, even in 1990. In the Magical world, although Rowling didn't address it, I'm assuming being Gay wouldn't have been outright accepted, even if you were a Pure-Blood.

If you think about it, homosexuality isn't even at the acceptance level it needs to be now for Rowling to have admitted Dumbledore was gay during the HP Series' popularity. Look at how outraged religious communities became just based on the fact that there was a book centered around magic.

It would not have been easy to find a LBGT community to accept him, never the less coped with the fact that his heart-break centered around him having to defeat his lover in a battle to save the integrity and safety of the Wizard and Muggle worlds. That would be a lot of guilt.

I think it was more of personal choice, he chose not to find another lover, rather than Rowling making a personal statement that he couldn't ever love again.

:bulletpurple: Minverva McGonagall

Actually, here is evidence that Minerva did in fact love again. All I will say in her defense is: Her mother married a Muggle and spent her whole life hiding who she was. I don't think anyone, including Minerva would want to be compromised in that way.

"Elphinstone Urquart. He came to visit her while on holiday to Scotland, and to her great surprise and embarrassment, proposed marriage in Madam Puddifoot’s teashop. Still in love with Dougal McGregor, Minerva turned him down.

Elphinstone, however, had never ceased to love her, nor to propose every now and then, even though she continued to refuse him. The death of Dougal McGregor, however, although traumatic, seemed to free Minerva. Shortly after Voldemort’s first defeat, Elphinstone, now white-haired, proposed again during a summertime stroll around the lake in the Hogwarts grounds. This time Minerva accepted. Elphinstone, now retired, was beside himself with joy, and purchased a small cottage in Hogsmeade for the pair of them, whence Minerva could travel easily to work every day."

The biography goes on to say that Minerva and Elphintone's marriage was cut short by his tragic death. She was so wounded by his death, her love for him was so deep, that she remained single. It is not uncommon for Widows to remain single, especially considering Minerva's age and how difficult it would have been for her to find someone else who wasn't significantly younger than her.

:bulletpink: Xenophilius

Do you realize how difficult it is for a single father (or single mother) to date when they have a child? There aren't many men or woman who are selfless enough to step up and raise a child that isn't their own, or let themselves commit to a romantic relationship with someone when there is a child involved.

Plus, Luna's mother's death was a huge tragedy for the pair of them. It brought her close to her father. Xeno is a very eseentric man, and not many people would be brave enough or prideless enough to let their love for him override the reputation they would get by being married to him.

I don't think it's odd at all that he became a single father raising his daughter. If you look at it from a realistic standpoint, instead of assuming she wrote them that wait to discount them finding love...Maybe she wrote it that way to include a character that children of single parents could relate to.

:bulletorange: Merope Gaunt

Merope didn't have any other Wizards to befriend. She was a Squib and that made her lower, even in her father's eyes.

Aside from her looks, Merope was also looked down upon for her economic status. This would have made anyone in "higher society" Muggle or Wizard looked down upon for considering her.

It wasn't for lack of trying that she didn't get a husband, no one gave her a chance. Heck she used a Love Potion on Tom Riddle, a Muggle, to get him to notice her.

That's another ugly part of hierarchial societies. Once you're pegged as low-class you don't have the chance, even if you try, to rise to higher statuses and it was considered unacceptable in her time for anyone to marry outside their status. A majority of (granted very vain) people bought into stauts-quo, so her options were extremely limited on two accounts: being a Witch (living on the border of a Muggle town) and being poor.

:bulletblue: Severus Snape

Severus grew up in an abusive household because his mother married for love. It is very difficult, nearly impossible, for women in abusive relationships to succesfully remove themselves from the situations, even with the help of an intervention. Eileen Prince fell in love with Tobias Snape, and she stayed with him for that reason.

In terms of Severus not finding someone else to love, think about Trust. I don't think Severus even trusted Albus 100%. Lily was his first friend and the first person Severus truly trusted and loved.

As someone of lower income, and as a Half-Blood, Severus would have faced duel dangers in the High-Society Pure-blood driven atmosphere of the Wizardng World which was (unrealistically) centered in Slytherin house.

As an Asocial person Severus wouldn't have made friends easily nor associated with people unless he saw personal gain involved (which is no admirable trait for sure).

Lily eventually turned her back on him, but he still harbored love for her, because she was his first love. It so happens that their cirucumstances turned them into different people, and Lily can take some of the blame for Severus' turn to Darkness, as she did nothing, seemingly, to protect him. She could have easily gone to the teachers about the bullying he faced and spoken to and adult about her fears of him becoming a Death Eater.

It's no surprise to me that he didn't fall in love with someone else. He aloof and asocial personality is the key to that.

As far as other characters go we can't make the assumption that there aren't characters from mixed families (although in terms of nationality, race, and Muggles, Pure-bloods, and Muggleborns there are plenty of mix-families in the series).

Until she releases more information on Dean or Seamus, who both had extended plot lines, we won't know.

It just so happens that she focused most of her main characters into situations like: being an orphan, coming from a happily married couple, having abusive parents, or having a large, loving family, as well as being raised by a single parent.

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:iconalloutofbubblegum:
AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
Oh I agree with you. I don't like many of the relationships. I can only think of Mrs. Zabini as one who remarried, but her marriages were under suspicion like she might have been some sort of Black Widow. Cho tried to move on after Cedric died, dating other people. There were a few instances of people dating more than one person (Ron) but I think you're right. I don't think any characters found a second love, or were married again, anything like that and yes it is possible and more realistic that some marry again. The attachment to one true love is a very 'romantic' sort of idea, so maybe JKR just likes that whole idea of having 'one true love'. Maybe in wizard society, which seems old fashioned in a lot of ways, it isn't looked on very well to remarry, or divorce? Case in point again, Mrs. Zabini. I don't know, but it is an interesting topic for thought. I agree with you that it isn't healthy, though.
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:iconbrewing-trouble:
brewing-trouble Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
Romanticism is nice, but the reasoning behind it just puzzles me. JKR had no problem with showing the gritty side of war, death, and some other aspects of life in a semi-realistic and mostly fairly believable manner. So I don't understand why she seems to have felt it was necessary to stay so COMPLETELY idealistically romantic about relationships as regards "one true love". It seems incongruous for what is, in essence, a coming of age story for Harry, when obviously learning about the cycles of growth, love and life is part of the process of coming of age and reaching true maturity.
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:iconvizen:
Vizen Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
Agree, agree, agree.......(repeats thousands of times)
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:icontempestoftherain:
tempestoftherain Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Student General Artist
You, my dear just voiced what I had been thinking for quiet sometime now. As heart breaking as it is to think about him being gone it is truly what is best for him. I Think the one thing That drew me to Severus was his absolute love for Lily, and at times it makes me hate her. Its just something you don't find.. I don't lik think of his love for her though, that probably doesnt make sense.. but its just so crushing. I wish JKR had given him better life.. or shown us he was okay in some afterlife scene. That would have been lovely wouldnt it? Anyway thank you dearie for speaking up.
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:iconh-a-cooke:
H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You're the first person to vaguely mention Lily at all, and the only one in a negative light. I think that it's completely valid for you to have hatred toward Lily. I've always felt that the main point people ignore is that Lily could have done more for Severus during their early years at Hogwarts.

As much as she was bullied and put in danger for being Muggle-born in general, Severus would have had to deal with being Mugggle-born in Slytherin House, which meant facing ridicule and having to prove himself every waking moment of his school life.

I always thought it was odd that Rowling never mentioned Lilly sticking up for Severus by going to Horace and Minerva, even Albus, to reiterate her fears that Severus was being bullied or forced into something he didn't, couldn't fully comprehend. I always disliked Lily for betraying Severus, completely turning her back on Sev when he realized he was wrong and tried to apologize.

I think she mixed up his interest in the Dark Arts - which I don't believe is bad, how can you truly understand magic if you don't learn all aspects of it? - with the people he was starting to hang around. If she truly was worried about his well-being she should have spoken to a teacher about it.
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:icontempestoftherain:
tempestoftherain Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2012  Student General Artist
First of all thank you.. When I firt started reading I thought 'this person is about to lay down some serious hate' but you didn't. Thank you.

The problem with hating Lily is that I DON'T to hate her. You are right we don't talk about it. People dont want to because she was Harry's mother. To hate her would be to hate him in so ways.. I don't see it that way. She could have forgave him. Everyone was always raving about what a great person she was... yet she could not for give her best friend? WTH?

I never got that either. She had to have seen how James and the gang treated him, she HAD to have known that the Slythreins had to have been treating him much worse. Think about it he had to sleep ALONE in the same dorms as them. On second thoughts DON't think of that. :( If Lily cared for Severus half as much as was implied she would have done something. Seen to it that someone saw what was happening. Even if that ment doing it without telling Sev what she did..

Now that I'm not sure of. I agree with learning about all aspects of magic. It just almost seemed like Sev needed to learn everything he could, and along the way he just got sucked in, which was Lily turning away from him just made that much worse. Its the reason he would have turned to Malfoy -the most popular 'friend' choice- Sometimes I wonder if Dumbledore did know you know? Its weird, but I feel like the way JKR wrote Dumbldore he could have known and stoped any of the teachers from doing anything. Another truly sad thought.

I feel bad for hating Lily, trully. Yet it is something I can not help. She got all this praise... While Severus could have been just as, if not better than she ever was.. Thats just how I feel. Like I said before, I wish JKR had given him a better life, but then he wouldn't have been the Severus we love.
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H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't hate Lily. But, nobody discussed her flaws as a person. James' flaws are highlighted in Severus' flashbacks as well as memories that Remus shares with Harry (I don't mention Sirius because he is biased for James and against Severus). I think that Lily did have a valid point:

The friends Severus was starting to associate with were dangerous.

However, I think Rowling's flaw was to leave out specific memories Severus may have had that would put him and Lily at odds, aside from the 'Mudblood Incident.' She should have forgiven him and attempted to get teachers to intervene, Albus could have easily stopped him.

I also am a firm believer of: Not all Sytherins were Death Eaters or Pure-Bloodists. That would be an unfair assumption to make. Just as not all Gryffindors were loyal or courageous - Peter Pettigrew, although I think he had potential to be.

Exactly. I think he may have been angry at first, as her telling teachers would have made his day to day life a bit harder. However in the long run it could have potentially saved their lives and their friendships.

I believe, in my heart and introspection about the characters, that at that time Albus still was't one hundred percent the man Harry came to know. I feel that Albus would have retained some of his Post-Grindlewald thoughts. However, I think that his, Minerva's and Hoarace's inaction, and reiterations that made Severus doubt himself, could have been handled in a way to promote inter-House unity and unity between houses by pairing students together in classes not jus Gryffindor/Slyterhin or Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff, but mixing it up with Slytherin/Hufflpuff, Ravenslaw/Slythern, Ravenclaw/Gryffindor, etc. etc.

Severus had personal reasons for becoming sucked into the dark arts. However, I don't think his ambition was evil, in fact the Levicorpus Spell is used to levitate many injured characters to the infirmary, and although Secutmsempra is a dangerous/harmful spell it was meant as a "last defense" as Severus also invented a healing charm to counter it. So, I think that Lily could have tried harder to understand his interest in the dark arts while at the same time fighting to keep him away from the Death Eaters and introduce him to her other friends.

I disagree. I believe he would still have regrets if things had been different, but he would have a radiant man if Lily had remained his friend, still sightly tortured and aloof, but radiant and joyful. Can you imagine? A truly happy Severus capable of jokes and wry humor?
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:icontempestoftherain:
tempestoftherain Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Student General Artist
It’s not really hate I have for her... It just the closest word I have. You know? Now Its like I said everyone talks about how great she was, Like you said, no one talks about her flaws. I agree with what you said about Remus and Sirius.

True, but what else was he suppose to do? She shunned him. She was his only friend.

But that’s the thing isn't it? The thing isn’t that just really rubs us the wrong way? We don't know all that went on between them. So we assume that THAT is all that happened between them. You Albus not being who Harry thought he was? I'm going to hit on that here a bit. I love Albus, I do. Yet I feel like he sort of had a mean streak that he kept hidden everyone... That’s just how I feel though.

No, I know I have always felt like I would have been in Slythrin, and I am nothing like what everyone says a Slytherin is.

I just don’t see how she couldn’t have…..

Like I was saying before, by the end of the books (and certainly by the end of the movies) I was very unsure of Albus. I don’t know why it was just a gut feeling that he wasn’t everything he was showing himself to be, that’s how it felt to me. I’m sure Minerva would have said something, yet the unease Albus gives me, I’m just not sure. I am sure however that Horace was absolutely oblivious to Severus. He wasn’t rich. Now when he started showing more and more talents academically he might have given him more attention. Just not enough to see he was struggling. Lilly would have had to say something to save him. Because I don’t know about you, but I am sure that Sev wouldn’t have breathed a word to anyone.

No, no. I wasn’t saying his ambition was evil. I just meant that it became evil, not that his intentions were evil. Nothing ever starts that way. I agree with the spells bit. I don’t know about introducing him to Lily’s other friends. It was the group who picked on him. Though I’m sure she had others, certainly. The question we will probably never have answered is ‘would they have taken him in as a friend’?

I can see what you mean by if she had remained his friend. What I meant had he lived without her friendship it wouldn’t have had a very good reason to live; like the original journal entry pointed out. I can my dear. That’s what kills me every time. All the different plots that play out in my head, there has been tons where he cracked jokes but in a sort of dry witty humor. Had she stayed his friend; consequently, helping him to see himself in a different light.

I don’t know. This is all my opinion of course, and it changes from time to time. I hope I hit on everything.
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:iconh-a-cooke:
H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think the word you're looking for is "contempt." I feel as if Lily wasn't developed enough in the story to warrant a good character analysis from the books. I do understand her reasoning, though. She did try to dissuade Sev from getting involved with Mulciber and Lucius. I think part of the reason the two grew apart was a gap in Lily's knowledge of Sev's struggles, so in one way I think her viewpoint was valid. I just think that she knew Sev a bit better than most people. I would have enjoyed seeming more of her "trying everything" to stay friends. It would have made her a more well-rounded person.

The Slytherin traits aren't evil. Some of them may be immoral like"doing everything to get their way." But, Ambition in itself is not an evil quality. I just think, that with Salazar's Pure-Bloodism established from the beginning Slytherins were the scapegoats in Rowling's plot for evil-doing. I think anyone, including Hufflepuffs, could have the potential to become Death Eaters.

I believe that Severus has a lot of pre-existing emotional perceptions of himself. Those go back to his childhood. Taking a deep look into those perceptions would take years of therapy.
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:icontempestoftherain:
tempestoftherain Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student General Artist
I see your point.. I just cant help the way I feel about the whole thing sometimes.

JKR talked about that in an interview didn't she? Hmmmmm. Not sure. I know not all are evil. I can see how she used it as a scapegoat. As great as the books are, she definitely left somethings lacking in my opinion.

Well, sure he does. Its what made him Severus Snape. (It always makes me want to tie his father to a chair and beat him to a pulp.) If he had survived, yes it would have taken years. I had discused this with my psychology professor. She had asked us about book characters, and after asking a few more I asked about Severus. (I felt so stupid.) It was funny though because she said she had waited all year for someone to ask about him. (I really liked her, sad I can no longer take he class) Baisically she said he could have needed several years just to work threw the childhood problems and then several more just to work threw all the things he did as a death eater. Then, the question of would he really have gone to therapy?
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:iconh-a-cooke:
H-A-Cooke Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I think JRK must have so many notes saved up in secrete notebooks :-). I want her to tell us so I can figure out more about my favorites, and some about un-mentioned characters like Luna's Mom and McGonagall's first lover.

I would love to see a Psychology Master degree thesis on the mental state of characters in popular literature. I'm not sure how that paper would be written but it would be so interesting. :-) I think the paper could compare Albus Dumbledore and Severus Snape, as these two characters are two of the main forces in Harry's young life, aside from the Weasleys.
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:iconalloutofbubblegum:
AllOutOfBubblegum Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
I would have liked for his body to have been found at least. Others were accounted for, but Snape wasn't. It doesn't seem like Harry would have just left him there, not spoken up, idk. He needed a proper burial at least, and Snape fans don't know if he ever got that or not. He deserved at least that basic respect to give him a proper resting place...though he will always be in our hearts, which is much better. :)
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:icontempestoftherain:
tempestoftherain Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Student General Artist
I really could not agree more. On all of it! :)
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